<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Language: time to learn</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.daveswhiteboard.com/archives/311/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.daveswhiteboard.com/archives/311</link>
	<description>Dave Ferguson&#039;s interests, ideas, notions, tangents</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 00:43:30 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.daveswhiteboard.com/archives/311/comment-page-1#comment-8384</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 01:38:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daveswhiteboard.com/?p=311#comment-8384</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s probably the case that there are more effective and less effective &lt;i&gt;ways&lt;/i&gt;.  

I wonder whether, in the learning-language field (or perhaps the teaching-language field), you don&#039;t run into some of the problems that Thomas Gilbert saw as part of &quot;the great cult of behavior.&quot;  (He vigorously urged focusing first on accomplishment, rather than on how people behaved [acted].)  

I can easily imagine an overemphasis on work for its own sake, or on piles of information (memorization of rules, say), or on motivation as the key to success.

(I mentioned another aspect of Gilbert&#039;s work when I talked about his &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.daveswhiteboard.com/archives/267&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;model for creating incompetence.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s probably the case that there are more effective and less effective <i>ways</i>.  </p>
<p>I wonder whether, in the learning-language field (or perhaps the teaching-language field), you don&#8217;t run into some of the problems that Thomas Gilbert saw as part of &#8220;the great cult of behavior.&#8221;  (He vigorously urged focusing first on accomplishment, rather than on how people behaved [acted].)  </p>
<p>I can easily imagine an overemphasis on work for its own sake, or on piles of information (memorization of rules, say), or on motivation as the key to success.</p>
<p>(I mentioned another aspect of Gilbert&#8217;s work when I talked about his <a href="http://www.daveswhiteboard.com/archives/267" rel="nofollow">model for creating incompetence.</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John B</title>
		<link>http://www.daveswhiteboard.com/archives/311/comment-page-1#comment-8383</link>
		<dc:creator>John B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 22:41:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daveswhiteboard.com/?p=311#comment-8383</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s true -- I suppose with any sort of exercise, mental or physical, there&#039;s a right and wrong way to do it (or at least a more or less effective way). What seems to make language teaching so difficult is how much the right and wrong way varies for each learner.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s true &#8212; I suppose with any sort of exercise, mental or physical, there&#8217;s a right and wrong way to do it (or at least a more or less effective way). What seems to make language teaching so difficult is how much the right and wrong way varies for each learner.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.daveswhiteboard.com/archives/311/comment-page-1#comment-8370</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 01:47:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daveswhiteboard.com/?p=311#comment-8370</guid>
		<description>John, i think you&#039;re right about just showing up as one factor.  

I think many people here in the U.S. have had unfortunate experiences with other languages -- like the forced marches through grammar or the absence of any models or application outside of language class.  (That&#039;s not to detract from many dedicated and creative language teachers.)

Not all work is the same, though.  In his book, Levitin talks about having wanted to learn the guitar as a child but being made to learn piano. 

So banging your head against conjugations or declensions might not be as beneficial in terms of effort as, say, having to ask someone out for coffee.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, i think you&#8217;re right about just showing up as one factor.  </p>
<p>I think many people here in the U.S. have had unfortunate experiences with other languages &#8212; like the forced marches through grammar or the absence of any models or application outside of language class.  (That&#8217;s not to detract from many dedicated and creative language teachers.)</p>
<p>Not all work is the same, though.  In his book, Levitin talks about having wanted to learn the guitar as a child but being made to learn piano. </p>
<p>So banging your head against conjugations or declensions might not be as beneficial in terms of effort as, say, having to ask someone out for coffee.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John B</title>
		<link>http://www.daveswhiteboard.com/archives/311/comment-page-1#comment-8369</link>
		<dc:creator>John B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 01:27:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daveswhiteboard.com/?p=311#comment-8369</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve often told people that ask about learning Chinese that &quot;it&#039;s cake after the first 1500 or so hours.&quot; I&#039;m probably not the &quot;model student,&quot; so it&#039;s probably not too bad after 750 or so solid hours of study. There is a lot to be said for just showing up and putting in the work -- natural gifts are great, but other than perhaps for athletes they aren&#039;t determiners of success.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve often told people that ask about learning Chinese that &#8220;it&#8217;s cake after the first 1500 or so hours.&#8221; I&#8217;m probably not the &#8220;model student,&#8221; so it&#8217;s probably not too bad after 750 or so solid hours of study. There is a lot to be said for just showing up and putting in the work &#8212; natural gifts are great, but other than perhaps for athletes they aren&#8217;t determiners of success.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.daveswhiteboard.com/archives/311/comment-page-1#comment-8362</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 19:04:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daveswhiteboard.com/?p=311#comment-8362</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Orlando.  Based on your description, your &quot;advanced&quot; seems to be the journeyman level I had in mind... you can put ideas together into large chunks (the paragraphs), but there&#039;s probably a limit on the size of those chunks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Orlando.  Based on your description, your &#8220;advanced&#8221; seems to be the journeyman level I had in mind&#8230; you can put ideas together into large chunks (the paragraphs), but there&#8217;s probably a limit on the size of those chunks.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
