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	<title>Comments on: Pélagie&#8217;s oxcart, or, learning to read by reading</title>
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	<link>http://www.daveswhiteboard.com/archives/3033?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=pelagies-oxcart-or-learning-to-read-by-reading</link>
	<description>Dave Ferguson&#039;s interests, ideas, notions, tangents</description>
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		<title>By: Alison Hobbs</title>
		<link>http://www.daveswhiteboard.com/archives/3033/comment-page-1#comment-23422</link>
		<dc:creator>Alison Hobbs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Nov 2011 21:31:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I shared your thoughts while struggling through &quot;Pélagie-la-Charrette&quot; recently, finding it a compulsive and fascinating read, even though I&#039;m unfamiliar with the Acadian vocabulary. I too felt it worth mentioning in a blogpost (http://alisonhobbs.blogspot.com/2011/11/guesswork.html). 

Did you finish your translation of the book? 

I have dual British-Canadian citizenship by the way. When I was at school (in England) we were never taught about the expulsion of the Acadians from their homeland. The truth would have been too shocking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I shared your thoughts while struggling through &#8220;Pélagie-la-Charrette&#8221; recently, finding it a compulsive and fascinating read, even though I&#8217;m unfamiliar with the Acadian vocabulary. I too felt it worth mentioning in a blogpost (<a href="http://alisonhobbs.blogspot.com/2011/11/guesswork.html" rel="nofollow">http://alisonhobbs.blogspot.com/2011/11/guesswork.html</a>). </p>
<p>Did you finish your translation of the book? </p>
<p>I have dual British-Canadian citizenship by the way. When I was at school (in England) we were never taught about the expulsion of the Acadians from their homeland. The truth would have been too shocking.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.daveswhiteboard.com/archives/3033/comment-page-1#comment-18366</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jan 2010 00:17:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daveswhiteboard.com/?p=3033#comment-18366</guid>
		<description>&quot;...where we routinely had to study phrases that even Russians wouldn&#039;t have known...&quot;

A good point -- I remember learning &lt;i&gt;demeurer&lt;/i&gt; for &quot;to live,&quot; as in &quot;I live in Detroit.&quot;  But my current francophone friends use &lt;i&gt;vivre&lt;/i&gt;; the other word is much more like &quot;dwell.&quot;  I&#039;m pretty sure I&#039;ve never said &quot;I dwell in Maryland,&quot; at least not with a straight face.

I confess to being wordy, at least on special occasions.  I think, though, that the main hindrance on my ability in French was the lack of conversational practice when I was young--they just didn&#039;t have that in my high schools.

I have some regret about not trying to learn Gaelic, but I&#039;d be starting pretty far back.  &lt;i&gt;Is e ‘n t-ionnsachadh òg an t-ionnsachadh bòidheach&lt;/i&gt; (the learning in youth is the pretty learning).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;where we routinely had to study phrases that even Russians wouldn&#8217;t have known&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>A good point &#8212; I remember learning <i>demeurer</i> for &#8220;to live,&#8221; as in &#8220;I live in Detroit.&#8221;  But my current francophone friends use <i>vivre</i>; the other word is much more like &#8220;dwell.&#8221;  I&#8217;m pretty sure I&#8217;ve never said &#8220;I dwell in Maryland,&#8221; at least not with a straight face.</p>
<p>I confess to being wordy, at least on special occasions.  I think, though, that the main hindrance on my ability in French was the lack of conversational practice when I was young&#8211;they just didn&#8217;t have that in my high schools.</p>
<p>I have some regret about not trying to learn Gaelic, but I&#8217;d be starting pretty far back.  <i>Is e ‘n t-ionnsachadh òg an t-ionnsachadh bòidheach</i> (the learning in youth is the pretty learning).</p>
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		<title>By: Simon Bostock</title>
		<link>http://www.daveswhiteboard.com/archives/3033/comment-page-1#comment-18359</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon Bostock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jan 2010 19:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daveswhiteboard.com/?p=3033#comment-18359</guid>
		<description>I used to have &#039;whatchamacallit&#039; days with a group of mostly-Mediterraneans I was teaching to do GMAT. Every word or phrase they weren&#039;t sure of, they were allowed to say &#039;whatchamacallit&#039; or some other placeholder (my favourite one, from my Grandad, is &#039;doings&#039;).

This was amazingly productive in terms of what they were able to communicate.

By contrast, I studied Russian and Czech at University where we routinely had to study phrases that even Russians or Czechs wouldn&#039;t have known.

We mostly don&#039;t learn language through words but collocations, constructions and phrases. And wordy people like you have the most trouble with grasping this  when they&#039;re learning. I saw an interesting study which showed that for many native speakers, a good quality newspaper is pretty much like you reading French. The number of items an even averagely-educated reader wouldn&#039;t get from, say, The Economist is staggering.

My first boss as a language teacher ran some utterly wonderful reading seminars during lunch where he&#039;d bring in things like sci-fi or Iceberg Slim or (and this is why his seminars were utterly wonderful - I can&#039;t even imagine where he got some of the books from) something else. &quot;Why didn&#039;t you use the dictionary?&quot; he&#039;d ask. &quot;Now go and teach them to do the same.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I used to have &#8216;whatchamacallit&#8217; days with a group of mostly-Mediterraneans I was teaching to do GMAT. Every word or phrase they weren&#8217;t sure of, they were allowed to say &#8216;whatchamacallit&#8217; or some other placeholder (my favourite one, from my Grandad, is &#8216;doings&#8217;).</p>
<p>This was amazingly productive in terms of what they were able to communicate.</p>
<p>By contrast, I studied Russian and Czech at University where we routinely had to study phrases that even Russians or Czechs wouldn&#8217;t have known.</p>
<p>We mostly don&#8217;t learn language through words but collocations, constructions and phrases. And wordy people like you have the most trouble with grasping this  when they&#8217;re learning. I saw an interesting study which showed that for many native speakers, a good quality newspaper is pretty much like you reading French. The number of items an even averagely-educated reader wouldn&#8217;t get from, say, The Economist is staggering.</p>
<p>My first boss as a language teacher ran some utterly wonderful reading seminars during lunch where he&#8217;d bring in things like sci-fi or Iceberg Slim or (and this is why his seminars were utterly wonderful &#8211; I can&#8217;t even imagine where he got some of the books from) something else. &#8220;Why didn&#8217;t you use the dictionary?&#8221; he&#8217;d ask. &#8220;Now go and teach them to do the same.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.daveswhiteboard.com/archives/3033/comment-page-1#comment-18306</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 16:13:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Caroline, thanks for the recommendation.  I found &lt;a href=&quot;http://archives.cbc.ca/arts_entertainment/literature/topics/1779/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this English-language video portrait&lt;/a&gt; of Maillet.  She is clearly a born storyteller; she learned at the age of 3 that &quot;there is another [story]&quot; besides &lt;em&gt;Goldilocks and the Three Bears&lt;/em&gt;.  &quot;Not only that, I could make some myself. I just had to send Cinderella to meet the bears.&quot;

G. K. Chesterton said that anything worth doing is worth doing badly.  To me that means if you&#039;re enjoying the results of your study of French--whether to read, or converse, or learn about your heritage, or study someone else&#039;s--you&#039;re already on the right path.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Caroline, thanks for the recommendation.  I found <a href="http://archives.cbc.ca/arts_entertainment/literature/topics/1779/" rel="nofollow">this English-language video portrait</a> of Maillet.  She is clearly a born storyteller; she learned at the age of 3 that &#8220;there is another [story]&#8221; besides <em>Goldilocks and the Three Bears</em>.  &#8220;Not only that, I could make some myself. I just had to send Cinderella to meet the bears.&#8221;</p>
<p>G. K. Chesterton said that anything worth doing is worth doing badly.  To me that means if you&#8217;re enjoying the results of your study of French&#8211;whether to read, or converse, or learn about your heritage, or study someone else&#8217;s&#8211;you&#8217;re already on the right path.</p>
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		<title>By: Caroline L</title>
		<link>http://www.daveswhiteboard.com/archives/3033/comment-page-1#comment-18303</link>
		<dc:creator>Caroline L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 15:33:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daveswhiteboard.com/?p=3033#comment-18303</guid>
		<description>What an exciting post! Maillet, Pelagie and La Sagouine are three of my heroines.  Both Pelagie and La Sagoine are in English translation, in case you are interested.  You may enjoy reading WRITING ACADIE by Hans Runte.  It&#039;s a comprehensive overview of Acadian literature and places Maillet as the writer of the Acadian Epic--i.e., Pelagie.  I appreciate your comments on reading in a foreign language.  I am of Acadian descent but grew up speaking English and seem to have trouble learning French.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What an exciting post! Maillet, Pelagie and La Sagouine are three of my heroines.  Both Pelagie and La Sagoine are in English translation, in case you are interested.  You may enjoy reading WRITING ACADIE by Hans Runte.  It&#8217;s a comprehensive overview of Acadian literature and places Maillet as the writer of the Acadian Epic&#8211;i.e., Pelagie.  I appreciate your comments on reading in a foreign language.  I am of Acadian descent but grew up speaking English and seem to have trouble learning French.</p>
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