Comments on: Learning by doing: the dynamics of apprenticeship http://www.daveswhiteboard.com/archives/2560?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=learning-by-doing-the-dynamics-of-apprenticeship Dave Ferguson's interests, ideas, notions, tangents Wed, 08 Feb 2012 21:23:12 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Dave http://www.daveswhiteboard.com/archives/2560/comment-page-1#comment-14298 Dave Tue, 18 Aug 2009 18:06:07 +0000 http://www.daveswhiteboard.com/?p=2560#comment-14298 Rich: Thank you for both the compliment and your well-informed contribution. As with community colleges, it sounds to me as though state apprenticeship programs are doing practical, useful work, even if it rarely grabs headlines. Rich:

Thank you for both the compliment and your well-informed contribution. As with community colleges, it sounds to me as though state apprenticeship programs are doing practical, useful work, even if it rarely grabs headlines.

]]> By: rich davy http://www.daveswhiteboard.com/archives/2560/comment-page-1#comment-14297 rich davy Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:54:47 +0000 http://www.daveswhiteboard.com/?p=2560#comment-14297 Dave: I work as a field representative for registered apprenticeship /State of Minnesota. I read your blog daily and learn a great deal from your posts as well as those of others. Thank you. Apprenticeship law in the US changed last year so that employers could have ( if they chose) a competency based apprenticeship using testing( performance and/or theoretical) /assessment to confirm competency. Most apprenticeship programs are also governed by ratio (journeyman to apprentice) requirements to avoid employers taking advantage of apprentices for "cheap labor". There are many apprenticeship programs evolving in the US in occupations other that the traditional construction trades. I see informal and social learning playing a very important role in successful apprenticeship programs if the employer can make the technology and know how available for apprentices. Dave: I work as a field representative for registered apprenticeship /State of Minnesota. I read your blog daily and learn a great deal from your posts as well as those of others. Thank you. Apprenticeship law in the US changed last year so that employers could have ( if they chose) a competency based apprenticeship using testing( performance and/or theoretical) /assessment to confirm competency. Most apprenticeship programs are also governed by ratio (journeyman to apprentice) requirements to avoid employers taking advantage of apprentices for “cheap labor”. There are many apprenticeship programs evolving in the US in occupations other that the traditional construction trades. I see informal and social learning playing a very important role in successful apprenticeship programs if the employer can make the technology and know how available for apprentices.

]]> By: Dave http://www.daveswhiteboard.com/archives/2560/comment-page-1#comment-14246 Dave Sat, 15 Aug 2009 02:46:47 +0000 http://www.daveswhiteboard.com/?p=2560#comment-14246 Clark: I'd add that a group of expert practitioners could work up some good conceptualizations of things like: <ul><li>Tasks clustered by difficulty (the vM&K "task classes") </li><li>Procedures and sets of rules for things that <i>are</i> done essentially the same way ("recurrent skills") </li><li>Domain descriptions and problem-solving approaches to build tacit knowledge. </li></ul> It's a side point, but I do think that people who go on and on about how great apprenticeships were in the olden days forget the temptation for the master to use the apprentice as low-paid labor. That's not to say don't do this; more that telling someone to watch Old Frank, and calling that "cognitive apprenticeship," doesn't make it so. Clark: I’d add that a group of expert practitioners could work up some good conceptualizations of things like:

  • Tasks clustered by difficulty (the vM&K “task classes”)
  • Procedures and sets of rules for things that are done essentially the same way (“recurrent skills”)
  • Domain descriptions and problem-solving approaches to build tacit knowledge.

It’s a side point, but I do think that people who go on and on about how great apprenticeships were in the olden days forget the temptation for the master to use the apprentice as low-paid labor. That’s not to say don’t do this; more that telling someone to watch Old Frank, and calling that “cognitive apprenticeship,” doesn’t make it so.

]]> By: Clark Quinn http://www.daveswhiteboard.com/archives/2560/comment-page-1#comment-14245 Clark Quinn Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:03:12 +0000 http://www.daveswhiteboard.com/?p=2560#comment-14245 Dave, that's why I love Cog App as a learning framework: it's optimized for the important stuff. Orgs aren't really going to be leveraging rote stuff (hint: automate), the advantages will come from getting "fairly complex" tasks wired, and helping learners become experts. Dave, that’s why I love Cog App as a learning framework: it’s optimized for the important stuff. Orgs aren’t really going to be leveraging rote stuff (hint: automate), the advantages will come from getting “fairly complex” tasks wired, and helping learners become experts.

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